"'Liar' is just as ugly a word as 'thief,' because it implies
the presence of just as ugly a sin in one case as in the other.
If a man lies under oath or procures the lie of another under oath,
if he perjures himself or suborns perjury, he is guilty under the statute law."
by:
Theodore Roosevelt
(1858-1919) 26th US President
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I think the American public was wrong to allow their own president to lie under oath and remain in office....Clinton, you helped make a mockery out of the USA.
 -- MUMMS, USA     
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    In tax trials, justice cannot be permitted and prosecutors will lie under oath to get convictions knowing full well that judges will cooperate. In one case, the defendant had served time for not filing federal returns and the prosecutor swore that defendant did file returns and got a judgment with the judge's help. If justice was regularly peritted in tax trials, the money that Keynes called "worthless" would become useless paper.
     -- Dave Wilber, St. Louis     
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    Anon, that's a very valid point. But what do you expect...the whole tax scheme is a lie. Naturally to preserve that lie they must tell more lies. Makes you womder how many good men and women have been ruined to preserve the lie doesn't it?
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Anonymous and J Carlton are right.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    Anonymous the defendant probably went to jail for not filing, then the IRS through their benevolent kindness filed for the defendant and the judgement was then entered for the amounts determined to be due and owing. What is wrong with that? The government is ready and willing and helpful to file your return for you if you do not do it yourself. Lying can be much more than a knowingly wrong assertion, it can be leaving out significant details and giving only parial or misleading information. Be aware that it is done all fo the time on this site. That you may not see this and that the two J's fell for your half story above has really made me feel bad and sad this morning. But still the best of the day to you all, and may it be one of enlightenment for you.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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     -- Waffler, Smith      
    Through their benevolent kindness? I think I'm going to puke!
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Golly gee whiz Waff, I'm so sorry that I caused you to feel bad and sad over my agreement with J and Anonymous. I do hope that you recover and have no lasting effects from this. You are almost as big a BS'er as Obama, Reed, and Pelosi.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    He was an arrogant racist who doesn't deserve to be quoted. If one reads the true history of his administration, it is clear that he sowed the seeds of WWII as an "aryan progessive."
     -- jeano, Dover     
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    Not being a Liar makes the lives of other people easier, because they can see clearer and find the best direction to take. We are here rating the quote, not its issuer, right?
     -- Elisabeth, Astoria, NY     
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    jeano, you are absolutely right and your statements are some of the better things that can be said of the man. Not shooting the messenger, my 5 stars are for accuracy. Waffler, I was once associated with a doctor that went to the IRS (with a court reporter and recoding device as witnesses) with a briefcase full of frns to pay what was said he owed. The IRS then calculated (interest, penalties, etc.) what they said he owed. He ask if they could give him a receipt stating that, that was the exact, true and correct amount of tax he owed. The IRS said they couldn't do that because they didn't know an exact figure without his papers - it was an arbitrary assessment based on his occupation and life style / a dif score and otherwise. He said he didn't understand what he could deduct and what papers to even bring forth or, how to accurately and truthfully fill out the return (to his personal satisfaction of truth, integrity and virtue - not the IRS's clamoring for another financial slave / victim). Because he wouldn't give them the frns without the receipt (to avoid any further IRS abuse of him, his family and his business) the IRS terminated the meeting. He then went to tax court where an individual is guilty until proven innocent. When that same IRS agent was ask in tax court, under oath, if that same figure (as was set forth in the first meeting) was the exact, true, and correct amount the Doctor owed, the IRS agent answered with an unequivocal "YES, ABSOLUTELY !" The defense attorney then ask if the IRS agent was lying then under oath or, was he lying in the first meeting. The IRS, and the vast majority of executive, legislative, judicial, and national media complex (including police) would rather lie than tell the truth, even when the truth would be of greater benefit. Those most ugly liars and thieves should be prosecuted under law but, if that were the case, the statist theocracy that now infests this land wouldn't have any officers left.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    I understand that most Congressman do not even sign their oaths any more. A government built upon lies will surely fall -- and a people who allow their government to lie and steal from them will become their slaves. Only a tax collector would tell others that the IRS is benevolent when in fact many now know that the IRS is a collection agency for the Federal Reserve to cover the interest on the government's debt to the Fed for the use of Federal Reserve Notes as currency. It is an agency that is mired in corruption, that operates by intimidation only, and has twisted the language beyond proportions so that no one can find their way out of the maze of legalese. The American Revolution was predicated on excessive taxation -- I believe it is only a matter of time before we see another uprising -- particualrly after the populace learns what the Obamanites have done/are doing to this country through lie after lie after lie -- the socialists don't care, as long as they get that new money into their hands, they will tell you that cutting $250 billion from the budget yet adding $1700 billion to it is 'reducing the deficit by $250 billion." And the people even realize this, but what can we do? Apparently nothing - yet. When the people awaken to their power, we will see a Tea Party like none other.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Teddy Roosevelt was a PROGRESSIVE who said to hell with the Constitution! He does not deserve to be associate with liberty, which he helped to destroy.
     -- Brian Bonner, Butte     
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    Mike the IRS has no idea what people owe. Under law people are responsible for determing that. If they fail to do so, the IRS can and does take its best shot. I suggest only God knows the absolute truth about the accounting intricacies of computing the final, absolute, corrrect tax. Anyone and everyone may and do overlook this item of deduction or income. The Agent was mistaken in his answer. He should have said to the best of his knowledge and belief. (Different Agents may arrive at different answers, since accounting records are diverse and there is some skill and human effort, time and energy in determing the final answer.)Remember this,that anytime a change is made to the calculation a new three year statute of limitation period starts running so that the "Good Doctor" (personally I think he sounds like an a## hole) can make additional changes to his tax report. Once the three years elapse without any changes then the Doctor and the IRS are estopped from making changes. The only caveat to the three year rule would be if fraud was committed. The definition of fraud fits very well with the quote: Fraud is lying.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Mike so more info concerning your Doctor associate. The reason I class him as a hole is because the dumbest person, (children excused until they first get caught) knows that "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Now how a man got to be a Doctor and be this stupid is beyond me, How you could associate with such stupidity is much easier to understand. Another tax case you may be interested in went like this. The "taxpayer" or should we say "non taxpayer" told the Judge, "Your honor this Agent just made these figures up" at which remark the Judge replied "Well that is better than what you do, you did nothing." Making up fiugures or best guesses from available information (even if not all information) is the way the IRS caught and incarcerated Al Capone. When a man lives in a million dollar home and drives several Cadillacs but files no tax returns and claims no income, do you think he might just be a liar and a fraud. Be advised if you don't want to pay taxes make as much money as you want to but just don't spend, live on the streets or in a tent. If getting away with tax fraud is your idea of something to do then live like a bum. Hoping this helps your twisted thinking, Regards da Waffler.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Spoken like a true tax collector, Waffler. The issue is the corruption of the law into an instrument of plunder. But we know you are all for that -- unless of course the victim were to be you...
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Waffler, that doctor was no dummy and, is one of the most honest men I've met (-; by the way, he's not a proctologist ;-). He got to be a doctor because of his intelligence and not taking another's word for that which is arbitrary and interpretive, especially when interpretive questions are followed with, if its not the absolute truth, penalties of perjury apply. The way IRS agents and judges lie and misinterpret, arbitrary and confusing is not good enough. He eventually went on to win his case in Federal Court (not bad for his limited resources compared to the statist theocracy Goliath's resources). FYI, I believe fraud of any kind, including tax, is wrong. I don't believe any one should defraud another; individuals, government, IRS, judges, etc. Your judge example only goes to prove if there is a non-liar / honest law abiding judge on a bench some where, he is hiding.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    An intelligent man so says the law knows whether or not he has income. If you are living, breathing, eating, clothing and housing yourself you either have income or assets from which you can support yourself. Don't worry if you are dead you will have no tax liablity, your estate may if it continues to earn income after your death and before it is distributed to your heirs. I am not talking like a tax man Archer I am only talking about the law and common sense.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Mike et al if you enjoy reading about criminal prosecutions in Tax Cases I just googled "Tax Cases that went to prison" and got a whole plethora of interesting reading. For one Wesley Snipes got three years. If you actually enjoy this kind of thing go read and have fun. I for one have much more interesting things to do.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    PS: Another case in which you may like to indulge yourself is the Berry family case in California. The father and two daughters got a total of 21 years in jail and orders to pay the US Treasury 10's of millions. Have a great time and a greater day.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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