"To believe in something,
and not to live it, is dishonest."
by:
Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
(1869-1948) Leader of the Indian independence movement in British-ruled India
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Profound.
 -- Tanikalika, Springfield     
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     -- Mike, Norwalk      
    An adaptation on the Aristotelian notion of the law of non-contradiction that was later adopted by Aquinas as an axiom of natural law.
     -- Logan, Memphis, TN     
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    This sounds like a quote the elitists of global slavery are living by. Their dishonesty is a way of life they honestly believe in.
     -- Anon     
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     -- Anonymous, Reston, VA, US      
    And if you "live it" you will be classified as a fanatic.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    Hey jim k, With what you said in mind...think I'll throw on some coveralls and a stars n stripes ball cap on backwards...load a couple dogs in the truck and head over to the gun shop and buy a new shotgun...just to see how many liberals I can piss off today! lol
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Congress really believes in Obama-care; however, they themselves choose to opt out of it.
     -- cal, lewisville, tx     
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    Yes, this is an example how the majority of religious folk behave. If Jesus came back you would more than likely crucify him again for being a Liberal. Unfortunately Aquinas, though of good heart, commandeered natural law to meet his own religious agenda. There is no such thing as Natural Law. Natural Law and common Law are man-made and any defense otherwise is the height of arrogance and narcissism. If there is a natural Law its "eat of be eaten" and strength over the weak. The Neanderthals were killed off by Homo sapiens and the Homo necans took over. And, unfortunately, that's where we are today.
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Robert, if there is no natural law, then why do you walk on the ground without floating off? I guess man just made that stuff up. The economy is strong, every one is prosperous without producing and, we only need spend more debt to be more prosperous because there are no fiscal laws of nature. Because there is no natural law, man's rule then, can legislate into existence compassion, charity, love, health, security, the nobility of life, and liberty through compelled compassion, license, victimless crimes, and larceny with impunity. Common law is a body of administrative tools applied in an ever expanding search to that which is. Natural law is that which is. To deny there is natural law is the height of arrogance and narcissism on the path to despotism's dictatorship. Common law when high jacked by despotic hegemonies becomes as oppressive as any administration of tyranny (being the law common to that which is in name only); when practiced in true search of fact and law, common law's result becomes freedom, liberty, and justice.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Mike, that is not natural Law, natural come from the word nature and there is no nature in floating as you put it. Its call gravity and that's the domain of science, and that is not the point I was making as "Natural Law" has been co-oped by religion. Natural Law is I agree, if that's what you would like to call it "what is, is". Mike, really, fiscal laws of nature, wow! lol. who determines the definition of "fiscal laws of Nature" Again, this is just man-made and religion wants to to tie everything to its agenda of what they consider Natural Law. I doubt very much if the Greeks, Romans or Saxons could explain to me the meaning of natural law. There is a distinction between nature and law. Law is an interpretation whereas as nature happens everywhere (flowers bloom in the spring but the spring is different depending on your location - the only element of truth with regard to the constant factor of nature is one of "happening". i.e., flowers regardless of their location will in their own time bloom. Aquinas used Aristotle's theory on Natural Law and even that has been disputed down the ages. Natural means whats happens naturally, i.e. natural beauty is often used as an analogy but even that is incorrect. Everything is a matter of interpretation. You could say that it is natural for the sun to rise in the morning 365 days in the year. I do agree with you that "Natural Law is that which is" but I'm afraid that's call tautology "what is, is, doesn't need to be pre-qualified.
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Robert, your answer, Nature figures the fiscal laws of nature. The Aristotles' and Aquinass' definition of natural law was as that rule which was based on morality that it had an ultimate effect to the good. That basic understanding was used by legal philosophers from then until now (except for the US founders.) The problem with the worlds use of the term was the ruling hegemony passed rules according to his own morals (power, control, wealth), not natures. The one giant change the founders utilized was law is not derived from morals but just the reverse, morals are derived from lawful adherence to law. I suppose some religions have usurped the term but so what, that doesn't change the law (because some religion states its natural for the moon to be made out of cheese, doesn't make it so). Natural law takes in all science, math, and everything that could claim an order. The founders of the US stated such things as we hold these truths to be self evident, 'inalienable' rights, etc (there is a cause and effect, a measurable result - its effect is then moral for the betterment for man) As per fiscal law, if you spend more than you can pay back, your bankrupt. Man can pass rules to say its not so but oops, eventually there it is again, Math is based on certain natural laws, science also. We (man) are creatures that can not make law but only live within the laws that exist. It is up to man to discover those laws and set in place procedural, administrative, etc codes, regulations, rules, ordinances, statutes, or otherwise uses to best define the law for man's harmonization therewith. Accounting procedures (inclusive of bankruptcy) can adhere to natural law for the betterment of man or can be antithetically used as theft, slavery or any form of heinous despotism (such as the income tax) contrary to natural law. Flowers bloom because they are following the law that defines the pattern of their existence. The understanding and administration or use of law is interpretive, not the law itself. As Albert Einstein said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." The lawful application will be constant no matter what man passes as law.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    BRAVO, Mike! I loved this...and your last comment...
     -- aa, hb     
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    I have heard the same argument from 'liberals' that there is no Truth, either, it's all just made up. Yet, liberals wish to dominate the making of 'laws' and the broadcast of the 'truth' that supports their authority to dictate. They call these 'laws' so that people will obey, but they are merely 'rules' -- these are the man-made 'laws.'

    But what is called Natural Law is that natural 'order' we have been discovering since mankind could think. Science is the field of learning about the world, politics is the science of controlling the world. Unfortunately it does not take much power to control people compared to controlling the forces of nature. The 'law' of gravity was 'discovered' but it already existed before mankind gave it a name. And yes, there is such thing as fiscal 'laws' not written down by man -- the ecosystem of Earth is a balance of give and take, life and death, everything interconnected and interdependent. How did all this come about before mankind claimed power over the Earth? And, Robert, since you have brought up Buddhism several times, what is 'karma' and how/why does that work without mankind's control and judgement? Even very simply, you have the choice to tell someone a hard truth or a comfortable lie -- is there any 'natural' consequence of doing either?

    There are a great many natural laws, physical and metaphysical. Working in harmony with them has sent men to the moon. Working against them only produces more lessons to learn, in fact this is how we learn about reality. Only when we have so much invested in the lie is facing the truth so difficult, but there it is.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Robert, I am not a fan of Aristotle's observation of natural law. As I stated above, it is completely backwards and inaccurate. Aquinas twisted the degrading perception even further. Those two early philosophers changed nothing or altered the "IS" of anything by their opinions. You ask; "who determines the definition of "fiscal laws of Nature""? The answer, corporeal man does. College accounting degrees are nothing more than man determining fiscal law and its application. The closer man's tools (codes, ordinances, policies, regulations, rules, statutes, etc.) get to natural law (that which "IS" in nature) the greater the opportunity for prosperity, peace, lack of larceny, liberty, perfected allodium, enjoyment of inalienable rights, etc. The further man's tools get from natural law, the greater the degradation, poverty, tyranny, despotism, etc. Keynesian Economics is but one example of a man made tool antithetical to nature's fiscal law (one observation of Keynesian Economics is how despots further economic tyranny through cycles).

    As to the quote: It doesn't matter what one believes, natural law (law of gravity, fiscal law, etc.) remains constant. It is accurate that religion is a major example explaining the way of people. I believe, religions, "A"theism to "Z"en (Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Humanism, Islam, etc.) have more patrons due to social structuring and the empty arguments given thereto than true believers - that is also dishonesty exemplified.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Gandhi preached that that he lived.
    "Nought nobler, than to be free:
    The stars of heaven are free because
    In amplitude of Liberty
    Their joy is to obey the laws.
    From servitude to freedom's name
    Free thou thy mind in bondage pent;
    Depose the fetich, and proclaim
    The things that are more excellent."
    William Watson.
     -- Ronw13, OR     
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    I have no idea how all these comments came from a simple quote - it needs no explanation...
     -- robert edwards, somewhere in the USA     
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