"Truth does not become more true by virtue of the fact
that the entire world agrees with it,
nor less so even if the whole world disagrees with it."
by:
Maimonides
(1135-1204) Jewish philosopher
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I never cease to be amazed at the wisdom that is available to us if we somehow know of it. The eternal mystery is our ongoing attempts to achieve perfection even as we are ignorant of all the information that thinkers in the past have sent along. The Internet is perhaps the greatest inovation since moveable type. Suddenly, we can speak to the world and listen to it. This man was ready for that over 800 years ago.
 -- J. B. Wulff, Bristol, CT     
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     -- Anon      
    One of the traits of natural law as was accepted by the founders and implemented through the Constitution. One of the traits that demonstrates why democracy, socialism and its many derivatives (communism, fascism, progressivism, etc.), etc. are most efficient systems in implementing and enforcing despotism. One of the traits that exposes the tyranny of statist theocracies.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Truth is absolute neither good or evil can change it - it has nothing to do with natural law or God, it is unto itself omnipotent . Mike, the far-right and corporate America, OK, and the banks, are the socialists of all time - and they are trying to keep their little secret. Their intention is world dominance and they will stop at nothing to achieve it. Mussolini said it best and he should know "A merger of state and corporate powers" - if you wish, socialism's egalitarianism. Here are the traits that expose your hypocrisy: ultra-nationalism, isolationism, contempt for human rights, disdain for civilized dialogue, disparity between the have and have-nots, intolerance, contempt for education, the merger of state and the corporatist's, military on steroids, military calling the shots, contempt for human rights, mobs influenced for right-wing agendas/lies, religious fundamentalism, corporate corruption (and no one is doing anything about it because they would bite the hand that feeds them), inciting public fear over bogus red flag operations, the merging of the two party system, corporate control of the media, no action taken against corporate criminals, doing away with Habeas Corpus, control by the banks, and the list goes on. Our real enemies are religious fundamentalism, the far-right wing of the republican party, and the fascists (see definition above).
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Robert, fyi; Natural law is absolute, neither good nor evil, and nothing on earth can change it. Some early philosophers defined natural law as being based on morals, virtue, right / wrong and other interpretive abstracts. Such allowing government to do whatever it desired as long as they could tie it to good, virtue, etc. (exampled by the current liberals, neo-cons, and statist theocracy). As modified from Blackstone, the American founders set forth that natural law was the foundation from which morals, virtue, good / evil, etc. were to be interpreted from. The original intent was that only law could be legislated, not morals, virtue, good / evil, what corporeal man thinks should be, etc. (those were religious subjects). By way of example: if you step off a cliff and fall to your death, the law of gravity there involved is not moral, virtuous, good or evil - it just is. The earth spins and rotates around the sun to create periods of light / day - dark / night, summer / winter, etc. (codes - statutes based on natural law make daylight savings time, street lights come on during certain conditions, etc.) - If you spend more than you are capable of paying back, for what ever reason, you become bankrupt. These three examples are based on natural law, not morality, virtue, good / evil etc. Man, for his benefit, then uses the law and passes appropriate codes, statutes, etc. The Constitution was written so that the only thing the government could do was that which was specifically stated within the 4 corners of the document (at law / natural law / positive law, the law of nature or of nature's God, etc.) If you would rather be governed by somebody's definition of moral, virtuous, good / evil, most of the world will accommodate you. I choose to live by a law that defines truth and is not moral virtuous, good / evil, etc. but just is. Robert; READ THIS: you are absolutely correct about the far right / neo-cons, that they are the fascist arm of socialism. The far left / liberalism represents the communist arm of socialism that is trying to take over the world. Your dialog represents most liberals and neo-cons of today's squabbling within the statist theocracy. I too am intensely opposed to those items of your dialog.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    The real enemy is anyone or anything that seeks to control the free choice decision of anyone and the only laws that are just are those that punish those that use that free choice right to harm another in any way shape or form, right wing, left wing or anything in between included.
     -- Anon     
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    Mike, you know only too well that Natural Law is theory - Good Anon
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Robert? what? Are you saying the 3 natural laws I just gave are theories. What does that make the codes - statutes based on such law?
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Everyone thinks their beliefs are the 'truth.' Few are honest enough to admit that they really don't know. What is, is, no matter whether we are aware of it or not.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Absolutely. And empirical data is our best recourse to seek the truth.
     -- Elisabeth, Astoria, NY     
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    Sadly while it may not become less true if everyone disagrees with it, some of the truths we held self evident are largely being sacrificed on the altar of "public opinion" expressed by a biased press. Even sadder is that this "public opinion" is held dearer than obvious truth even in the face of actual overwhelming public outcry.
     -- Todd, Las Vegas     
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    Isn't that the plain truth?
     -- David Ben-Ariel, Toledo     
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     -- Luis, Panamá      
     -- Henry, Edinboro, Pennsylvania      
     -- jim k, Austin, Tx      
    It is better to know to tell the truth, which is to accept or admit when one is wrong. Giving way for correction and instruction.
    To hear those that chew upon doctrine, presenting their defense from both sides does take time. The position taken as a musician and I am, would won't to know how to put forth knowledge in a harmonious manner. Just as the natural laws of nature dictate ! It is the only way receivable by the natal agent. It is a good thing if only to realize that the God of nature has a natural order. As every 8th note is a new beginning. There are 7 notes in the scale. 7 days in the week.
    The deeper things reveled through more complex arrangement of notes, but harmonizing always. Bad notes do not work ! So is the arrangement between The Creator and man. Experience dictates you can not get on the roof with out a ladder. The illustration is given to the minds eye as well the paper. It is better to know that through the natural law you have something tangible, than to say it is not there as our adversaries do, and their folly is made to show before all.
    We all press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of understanding (God ). To sing the song of liberty and freedom for the natal agent in a natural way is good, for it harmonizes. Regardless if the agent knows the intricacies of how the music is formed. It is through desire that one is led by Divine Providence to play the song.
     -- watchman 13, USA     
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    have tried to pass this bit of wisdom on to my friends and children for a long time.
     -- Zapato, Brush Prairie     
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    watchman, I like your musical argument! Some notes are just not in harmony with others -- even a child can recognize a wrong note. Such is my experience with truth -- if it doesn't 'ring' true, most likely it isn't, or it certainly doesn't fit with the current 'song.' I do think of life in harmony with Natural Law as a song -- the ONE song if you will, the UNI-Verse. ;-) Religion to me is like music, there are many different 'vibes' and 'styles' -- no melody or chord is the 'right' one -- there is different music for different periods in one's life. But being out of tune, off tempo, off pitch, and too loud is merely noise. ;-)
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    That's always been the problem with democracy...
     -- RBE, Somewhere in Europe     
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    Robert, I know there has been a lot of discussion between this original posting and now so my comment here is to those readers that have not been here long. Natural law, as referenced in the Declaration of Independence (the laws of nature and of nature's God) means that which is absolute (gravity, physics, fiscal law, etc.) At natural law, codes, ordinances, regulations, rules, statutes are mere tools to identify and administer the law that already exists. At "legal positivism", legal "realism" or other definitions of law, men as gods, declare such here stated tools as "THE LAW". The absolute of reality is, the closer man's tools are to the natural law, the greater the freedom, liberty, justice, prosperity and exercise of inalienable rights. The further man's tools are from natural law, the greater the despotism, tyranny, injustice, poverty and enslavement. By one example: economics at natural law exceeds all other forms of application - i.e. - where Keynesian economics is practiced, liberty and prosperity wanes.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Some wisdom from the Buddha: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it , or who said it , no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense".
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    Truth is eternal and is besmirched by those who are not eternal.
     -- Oark Guru, Arkansas     
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     -- Mary, MI      
     
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