"If you pinch the sea of its liberty,
though it be walls of stone or brass,
it will beat them down."
John Cotton
(1585-1652) Puritan minister of Congregationalism, "Patriarch of New England"
An Exposition upon the Thirteenth Chapter of the Revelation, Limitation of Government, 1655
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The desire to be free is the one thing that will always win out over tyranny. Because people are willing to die for it.
 -- J Carlton, Calgary     
     -- jim k, Austin      
    We hold this truth to be self evident. Though the statist theocracy that now infests this land has hidden well the concepts, actions and words that express liberty and, built a seemingly impenetrable wall of despotism and tyranny, that most sacred core of the human sole will always find away to eventually throw off tyranny's chains and express law's trure liberty
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
    I keep wondering why you think we have a theocracy, Mike? We are at liberty to worship as we choose or not to do so at all. We have a president that hasn't been inside a church since he landed in office. Without some belief system many people would be little more than 'lotus eaters'. The Founders recognized that there was likely something more important than humans and that something gave them a desire to live freely, be productive, and experience a suggested order in which to live. You are not forced to believe those ideals...you have choice. We may soon actually be living under a theocracy such as we see in Iran...and then you may appreciate the difference. I agree with much of what you say, but think you really don't completely understand the concept of a theocracy.
     -- aa, hb     
    aa from hb: Religion is: "real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men." (Bouviers Law Dictionary) By lawful definition, welfare or duty performance to our fellow man is a religious activity. If government practices religious ordinances (marriage, well fare, commandments - thou shalt pay tithes (taxes) or go to purgatory (jail), etc.) it becomes a theocracy. If that theocracy is dominated by a central dictum, it is defined as a statist theocracy. The Declaration of Independence states that an individual assumes among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them (by way of example - unalienable rights and we hold these truths to be self evident). God is the law giver and man's duty is to discover those laws (fiscal, and that which concerns life liberty, and property) and pass codes, ordinances, rules, regulations, statutes etc. in harmony therewith. When man rejects this most fundamental lawful jurisprudence and declares that corporeal man is the law giver, the government then becomes his church / enforcement agency and his canons are enforced as law. That is a pure definition of theocracy. I have used multiple legal definitions (legal dictionaries, court cases, etc.) of what religion is but for now this should suffice. The United States lawful jurisprudence was based on individual sovereignty and a separation of church and state. The government was to be a limited representative of the individual sovereign and not the religious dictator of compelled compliance, license, victimless crimes, and larceny with impunity. Religion is a much broader concept than what the ACLU would have people believe. aa, I hope that helps
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
    aa, a p.s. You mentioned Iran. Iran's theocracy allows other religions (kinda sorta, at least on paper just like the U.S. - there are a lot of Christians there) The government schools in the US do not allow Muslim children to separate themselves to perform their Mecca directed prayers; do not let Christians invoke the blessings of their God in any activities; and teach an atheistic faith based version of creation as fact (no atheist belief system has ever put forth a working model of how life was created or came to be and evolution, though proven false, continues with hypothesis of certain selected evidences). The values and teachings of Judeo / Christian history that brought about the Constitution are mostly ignored but otherwise scoffed at, making a form of atheism the national establishment of religion. The current exclusion of all religions except atheism is not freedom of religion but rather a statist totalitarianism on a theocratic scale.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
    Most of us have not studied 'law' nor the dictionary used by those who would so rely on Websters for a definition and that one, as you know states a theocracy is a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil leader. Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution...according to Kevin RC Gutzman, JD., PhD. with that satisfaction coming from the first Amendment. This is very interesting and I thank you for sharing this with me from a 'law' point of view. I don't think it is one that most have heard before. I wonder if you would object to me keeping it in my file to ponder further?
     -- aa, hb     
    aa, good stuff. By the way, I don't object to much in that way. I even enjoy Waffler and others of his ilk on this blog. If we keep talking and helping each other we have a better chance or becoming who we really want to be. You are absolutely right about there being no mention of a separation of church and state. In fact, the Jefferson letter that was so touted in eliminating Christianity from public life actually, was about assuring that Church could enter public life but, the Fed could not enter the field of directing religious life (in any way). When the Constitution was written 11 years after the Declaration of Independence, there were still 9 States, out of the original 13, that had official establishments of religion (State sponsored churches) By 1820 the diversity of religion had grown such that the official State Religions died a natural death. AND, you are also right about most dictionaries for public consumption, they redefine words for political correctness sake. By a separation of church and state I meant that, the Fed had a very limited role concerning interstate affairs and doing things as a whole (those things the States could not do as well individually). Religion was strictly a State issue. aa, thanks for the opportunity to clarify.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
    I believe so, too.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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