Herbert Spencer Quote

"All socialism involves slavery.... That which fundamentally distinguishes the slave is that he labors under coercion to satisfy another's desires. The relation admits of many gradations. Oppressive taxation is a form of slavery of the individual to the community as a whole. The essential question is -- How much is he compelled to labor for other benefit than his own, and how much can he labor for his own benefit?

by:	Herbert Spencer (1820-1903) British author, economist, philosopher
Source:	The Man Versus the State -1884
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Categories:	Oppression, Responsibility, Slavery, Socialism, Taxation
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Socialism can only work when the absolute majority says it can. Socialism is the pure manifestation of societal democracy; when the workers of the businesses (majority) revolt against the owners (minority) to create a corporate commune, this is Communism -- when you accomplish this same thing by due process it is called Socialism. When the community raises up against the land owner to take away from him his property, this is societal democracy. The ignorant have argued that the Constitutional grant of "eminent domain" proves a socialistic thread in the Constitution. ROT!! I refer to Mike's excellent response a few days ago concerning the history of eminent domain in reference to allodial land and titled land (again, more terms that have been redefined in today's text books from those of a hundred years ago). The majority is made up of a collective of individuals who are all "created equal"; as a collective of individuals, what is the arbitrary number wherein a group of individuals assumes more power as a majority than the individual themselves possess? Certain ignorant contributers to this blog still have not given me their majoritarian ratio wherein rape, murder, or incest is made legal. Is gang rape okay, just because it is done by the majority? What of murder? What if 1 million people said a women may be raped, and the only lone voice of dissent was the women herself -- is THAT OK? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! This is the very basis and essence of a Republic (vs a Democracy) wherein we, as a society, adhere to an outside set of norms, codex of customs and laws, wherein we reject the notion that a mere majority consent can condone rape, murder, or incest!! Waffler would have the women raped, the child abused, and the individual murdered in his vile claim of Democracy (a mere 2:1 ratio wherein the majority won! As I have heard spew on a number of occasions: "ONE PERSON ONE VOTE" .. Well, the rapists got their vote, and the women had hers)! Such is the essence of slavery -- when the minority may be raped, pillaged, and plundered by majority consent. Where is the recourse of wrongs committed by a sometimes vicious (if even by an ignorant) majority in a pure democracy?! SUCH IS MERE MOB MENTALITY! I'm all about doing things by the majority's consent, so long as an outside codex of laws exists outside the majority's control wherein the individual is protected (SUCH AS A BILL OF RIGHTS)!!! HOW CAN ANYONE ARGUE AGAINST THIS?! HOW CAN IT NOT BE ANY MORE CLEARER?! I am all about giving to my fellow man in helping him to progress, build, and dream -- but when I am infringed upon by the majority's usurpation, where am I to turn for redress? Where do I turn to in a Democracy? In my Republic I can turn to the courts who acknowledge that there is an outside codex of laws wherein the majority has overstepped its bounds; otherwise, in a Democracy, the courts have no power because the voice of the majority is IT -- with no questions, redresses, or returned equity! Long live our Republic! Damn the tyrannous hand of Democracy! Damn societal Democracy (Socialism)! Let the people rule! Let there be LAW to govern!! Let the people learn personal responsibility and accountability wherein they can govern themselves!! Let freedom and liberty again return to the hearts of the people who have been dummied down by false philosophies of traitorous tyrants who by vile scheming or ignorant planning have traded temporary security for individual freedom -- and have done so by merely swaying majority consent! Where is my redress?! Where can I go?! Freedom is worth living for, it's worth dying for!  -- Logan, Memphis, TN      3
Extremely well said and accurate.  -- Mike, Norwalk      2
"Oppressive taxation is a form of slavery of the individual to the community as a whole. The essential question is -- How much is he compelled to labor for other benefit than his own, and how much can he labor for his own benefit?" If govt. operated in it's limited forms as state and federal constitutions mandate, 10% flat would be plenty to operate them. Local welfare would be taken care of on a county level where it could be ensured that the funds went to whoever truly needed it. The power to tax uncontrolled and then when greedy hands couldn't get enough, the power to borrow on credit is why we have a socialist (or should I say communist) democracy today. But smile folks, we get what we pay for, and deserve.  -- Dan
For an example of socialism, look no farther than the "environmental movement". Want to improve your land? Get an environmental impact study and hope they don't find an "endangered" worm on it. Socialists are basically control freaks of which we have a plentiful supply here in the U.S.  -- jim k, austin
A good quote. It addresses one of the fleecings of America.  -- Me Again
Socialism is a cancer on a healthy society. The "Greens" are actually the "Watermelons". Green on the outside and RED on the inside.  -- J Carlton, Calgary
The end result of socialism is that everyone who was pulling the wagon ends up in the wagon and well.... the wagon goes no where. God Bless the great Jesse Helms....one of the last true Conservatives. I'd rate LOGAN'S remarks as 5 stars.  -- Ron, Raleigh, NC
If this quote is correct then America has been and is the preeminet socialist country in the world. We were birthed as a nation out of slavery, Carnegie built his steel and wealth out of a form of slavery (just ask his daughter) and we now import illegals to slave for us and make a few slave holders rich while we suffer. Our US Congress building was built by slavery-socialism. Are you okay Logan? Yesterday you said "democracy and republic are synonymous". Today well I don't know. Were you telling the truth yesterday or today? I think the answer lies in whether you think abstractly or realistically. The "democracies of the western world" have never allwoed rape etcetera, so why do you worry about such an abstractio?. Democracy is a recognition of equality, common sense, and the Golden Rule. If I can rape your wife then you could rape mine. The fact that we are in equilibrium generally keeps all of us in check. A few stupid people over step this natural state of equilibrium. That is why we have cops, judges and jails. We should all pause and give thanks, I guess, that the United States of America is the lowest taxed of the industrialized nations and wonder why the higher taxes nations and the "communist" nation of China are beating our socks off. And wonder why the dollar is almost worthless while the Euro soars. I don't believe that the residents of places like Sweden feel like slaves and it is considered by many to be the most socialistic of our free world allies.  -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas      2
-- Dick, Fort Worth
If you ever travel outside the United States you will have people ask, " what is wrong with the United States? what is wrong with your people"? . They say this because we are supposed to be a beakon of freedom for everyone yet we are not. Some even openly mock and ridicule the US. Why? look no further then our oppressive government. Both Waffler and Logan make extremly valid points, the problem is to construct a bridge between their two points. We as citizens have been and are being sold out by our politicians and business's all in the name of corporate and governmental greed. we as a soceity can regulate and tax everything but good judgement and common sence.  -- Karl Marx, Franklin , Pa.
This sounds like an exchange of my guest panelists during my radio program. To avoid any inclination that I borrow quotes without proper attribution, when I use some of this excellent verbage in my weekly column in The Weirs Times the readers will be told where found and wh said them. To check the authenticity please visit weirs.com and find Advocates for Honest & Open Government. Niel Young Laconia, NH bnyoung@metrocast.net  -- Niel Young, Laconia, NH
The only reason socialism hasn't yet created 'heaven on earth' in all of history is that the govt needs just a little more of your money, and a little more power.  -- Paul, Union, WA
Well, finally Waffler seems to be getting it. The current US government IS the pre-eminent socialist country in the world today. Sheesh, now that we have gotten that out of the way, the question remains, "How has a free republic unique to all the world in its defense of individual rights become the beacon for socialism?" Does anyone care anymore about their right to be left alone, to chose with whom to share the fruits of their labors, to trade freely amongst ourselves without the government claiming a percentage of every single transaction between two human beings, to call our mismanagers to account for bankrupting the nation, ignoring the Constitution, fixing elections, debasing the currency, profiteering from war, search and seizures without warrant, arrests without charges, declaring numerous medicinal plants 'illegal,' requiring licenses to travel, to farm, to marry, to work... ?? Where does it end? How far will Americans allow their government to abuse their powers? After merely 3 generations of such abuses, from the Baby Boomers on, we have been conditioned to accept all this as 'normal' because it is worse somewhere else. In 233 years, we have gone from a voluntary association of free and independent states of sovereign individuals to a subservient class of workers subject to the whim of government in the guise of democracy, where in fact it is a despotic fascist elite that controls the public opinion of uneducated and domesticated sheep for the purpose of acquiring power, influence, and money to further subject the masses. This year's choices for President merely highlight how far down that road we have gone. At least in China the people know they are in servitude to the state -- in America, as long as we have our little toys and a hefty line of credit, we happily embrace hypocrisy as our creed. When the brown shirts take away their neighbor, they simply shake their heads and say, "If only he had just played by the rules, this never would have happened." I can't believe we have become a nation of boot-lickers. Logan, Excellent!  -- E Archer, NYC      1
Isn't everyone glad that they're only a part time slave?  -- Ken, Allyn, WA
Archer as usual you fail to read and you grasp at any bombastic statement or idea that will serve your preexisting uneducated point of view. I did not say the US is the preeminet socialist country in the world. I said IF the statement is true. I don't believe that the statement is true. Was Greek society with its' leisurely life for the philosphers a socialist society. I don't think so? Was Rome where some 1/3 or 2/3 (which ever it was) of the folk slaves a socialist society, I don't think so. Do we consider Swedes who build our Volvos and Saabs slaves I don't think so. I think we need to take a break or break with some of the words we use that hinder real thinking. I would say that most on this site who see the word "Socialist" or any of its. derivatives have a visceral gut reaction and loss of ability to even think. If it is so damn bad should we not as a nation stop dealing with these Swedish, Chineese and other devils. Many will brand as "socialist" in study done my any university, any country that has a policy different than ours. It is time for us to grow up Archer, why not let it start with you, kind Sir.  -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas
We are all slaves under the yoke of debt. Debt is our God - no debt, no credit. By the way, old man Bush's father sold weapons to Hitler - we are as corrupt as any third world country - we are just good about covering it up.  -- RobertSRQ
I meant to say that Greek society was built on slavery.  -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas
When government can take everything without paying for anything you have slavery. THERE IS NO BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT PAYING ANYONE FOR ANYTHING!!! The non payment is not detected by many because very few know that the dollar, by law, is still a measure of silver in coin form. Such coins do not cerculate. The slaves are sastisfied but not paid with check that order banks to pay. We can get goodies for the checks and banks will give us dollar bills that the IRS (Imaginary Revenue Scum) said "are not dollars." There would be no wars if soldiers and suppliers had to be paid but they pretend they are paid with checks, pretend that government spends and pretend we have freedom. We are free only in the sense that our Marxist misleaders can use us, amuse us, abuse us and confuse us without paying any of us. The reason that ball players, entertainers, journalists are rewarded (not paid) with big checks is that they must keep us and themselves amused, confused and defused at all costs whie we and they bear the costs with ever higher prices for food, gas, etc. The ideal slavery from the masters' viewpoint is when most slaves will ridicule and punish the few who won't confess vua 1040 to how much we were cheated with what Nobel Laureate, Paul Samuelson calls "counterfeit." The Imaginary Revenue Scum have four functions but collecting money is not one of them. Those functions are to intimidate, regulate, interrogate and incarcerate. By sending them checks that only authorize banks to reduce our numbers, our consumption is regulated. In 1820,, John Maynard Keynes wrote: "If governments should refrain from regulation,...the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud upon the public can be conceald no longer." "We are all Keynesians!"--President richard Nixon The tax illusions is but one means of regulation. For more, see: www.morpix.biz/dc "That you vote does not prove you are free, it only shows you are a slave who votes." anon We can thank dishonest Abe for our predicament. His contemorary, Horace Greeley said that Lincolns iniquitous money system "is no less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery." Lincoln's legal tender acts constitute legal slavery. See: www.morpix.biz/god Hoards of "money experts" condemn this system but they have nothing to say about legal tender. they have no desire to gain our freedom, they only want to change our masters. The want Vongress to do what the fed is doing! "None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe that they are free."--Johann W. vonGoethe  -- Dave, St. Louis,MO      1
-- warren, olathe
Well said Logan and Archer, I would add socialism is also THEFT!  -- Mike, Pleasant Hill      1
I'm afraid that Waffler has yet to find his Socialist Utopia. I'm also afraid that he'll have to trudge a never ending and winding road and still never, ever come upon his Socialist Utopia .. because, it does not exist. Socialism is slavery .. it takes away and plunders from the fruits of the individual's labor through coercion and force. Socialism also denies the ability and free will of consent.  -- Mary MI      1
-- jim k, Austin
Now that the fight comes to public view, the case of Constructive Fraud is brought to light, reversing the ills of the regulatory state, the socialist democratic party, their radical liberalism and the "progressive era" agenda, has caused such convulsion, there is no going back.  WWG1WGA to MAGA to KAG  -- Ronw13, Oregon

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