"The natural progress of things
is for liberty to yield
and government to gain ground."
by:
Thomas Jefferson
(1743-1826), US Founding Father, drafted the Declaration of Independence, 3rd US President
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History has proven this to be an absolute, over and over again. In direct proportions, as the statist theocracy that infests this land grows, nationalizing industry as part of its despotic and unconstitutional criminal activities, liberty, freedom, the rights of man, law, and justice all loose ground, yielding cognitive presence.
 -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Which is why the Framer's designed a government that was basically kept in check by its own structure. It's pathetic though, how it has become a criminal enterprise.
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Tom was a bit of a motor mouth, his words should be read and anlysed carefully. Not something that is often done by Mike and J. First of all liberty and government are not opposites. The liberties we enjoy in the USA were brought about by the Continental Congress waging war on the King of England. The Congress was a goverrnment. Then the weak governement of the united colonies was replaced by a stronger government that was able to insure greater liberty including eventually freedom from slavery, freedom for all to vote, etcetera. Most know of some free people who are more than willing to enslave others into prostitution, sweat shop labor, employ illegals etcetera. Only through our united action via the governmnet(s) we set up can we counter the seemingly inate inhumanity to man. Liberty strangely enough does not generally come from every one being at liberty to do whatever he individually wants to do but comes from the united action of all of us.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    It's nice to know that Waffler is smarter than Thomas Jefferson. Waffler, get someone to read you the quote before you write such gibberish and nonsense. This quote is exactly true to anyone whose IQ is greater than his shoe size.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    This country is full of power control junkies who are not happy unless they are controlling something even if it's a McDonalds managerial positiion all the way to some corporate CEO involving billions of federal debt notes. It is the continuing competition in these halls of power grabbing that marks our country for it's coming dowfall. Stocks up? Suck it up, as this is just what they expect. This administration has nothing but the best for you and your family. HaHa.
     -- Anon     
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    Waffler, you are a low life. We do NOT refer to our most important founding father as "Tom". Any more than we refer to our present Usurper as "Obie". Crawl back under your rock you socialist snake.
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Alas, so true. As this is satire it earns three stars
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Government did not give us our liberty, liberty is derived from the laws of nature and of nature's God, as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Government is enacted by man because the total absence of government is chaos. As stated in another quote, "That government is best which governs least".
     -- Glenn, Long Island, NY     
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    I meant Tom affectionatly and he would be the first to appreciate the diminutive. He is one of my favorites but he was just a man like you I J. Governement via the Federal Marshall and the Sheriff gave liberty to the west when they were being beaten down by the liberty loving, gun toting western gangs. That is what I meant by government (and by the way that government is us). Glenn is on the right track. Many here have a perspective and a bias and it is simply, purely and only anti-government. Sometimes being anti-government can also be anti-liberty.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Isn't it a fact that that is the natural progress of things? So smart and noble of Great Thomas Jefferson to remind the people of the natural progress of things, so people will keep an eye on the Government.
     -- Elisabeth, Astoria, NY     
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    Waffler, I'm not sure what fictional tv programs you've been watching but, the vast majority of early western gangs were originally violated by governments and / or their policies. Those gangs mostly fought back against the subject of their violations and the general public protected them. Other gangs, such as the rabble left over from building the railroads were dealt with by local individuals and/or their organized vigilantes. The U.S. Marshals and county Sheriffs were at best, secondary to the role you portray them in. Does MSNBC supply your history as well as your sound bites? Liberty and freedom demand personal responsibility. Those societies that hand over to government, beyond a very limited role as personal representative, those responsibilities, find they have yielded up their liberties to an ever expanding tyrannical government. Police departments as now exist, were considered a standing army to repress 'We The People and, tyrannous until after the war between the States. The Northern politicians wanting to inflict as much anguish, harm, and oppression on the South as possible, implemented policing agencies and then expanded them into the west as a natural progression of control and robbing liberty. (and by the way, the current government is NOT us - it may be you, but it is not us) I have here shown you dozens of Supreme Court decisions that state no policing body is responsible or liable to 'We The People' under any circumstance. The Warren Court also declared that the government has inherent rights in and of itself which is contrary to and outside of, of, by and for the people. It has been most clearly shown that legislators and other elected officials represent the foreign and de facto government not We The People. Legally, when people vote in any jurisdiction or venue in the US, they are choosing a foreign master that will hopefully allow them some glimpse of freedom. Under the current statist theocracy infesting this land, government is the master of the people, not the servants thereto. Jefferson was absolutely spot on with this one.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    A PS Waffler. I find your liberal double speak, attempting to paint your opponent with a know false association typical, and an intended falsehood. By way of example: "First of all liberty and government are not opposites." is a true statement but by inference, you implied that J and I don't believe that. I do believe that the statist theocracy infesting this land, with its head puppet Mr. Obamunist Goodwrench, to be an opposite of liberty. The de jure representative republic that Mr. Obamunist Goodwrench's statist theocracy replaced was a most brilliant purveyor of liberty.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    YAHHH
     -- Angela sandoval:), PASO     
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     -- Ronw13, ID      
    So I give Jefferson 2 stars, his Francophile side is invested in cynicism from the colonial plantations a la Jean Jacques Rousseau. The Francophiles in the US were a different branch of Social Contract theory where human rights are at center and Hobbes and Locke were in a deadlock with ole Jean. The Federalists came up with a Bills of Rights that the greatest statesman to France  Benjamin Franklin signed onto philosopher, inventor, businessman, politician, newspapers, and most of of all diplomat and ambassador during the revolution. See Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. You literally have to worship Liberty that is not undefined. J
     -- Don Lee, Reno     
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    Waffler — please enlighten us as to your definition of liberty. I would define Liberty as: “The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature.” (Bouvier’s Law Dictionary) Liberty is the “exemption from extraneous control.  The power of the will, in its moral freedom, to follow the dictates of its unrestricted choice, and to direct the external acts of the individual without restraint, coercion, or control from other persons.  Liberty is the right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere with an equal exercise of the same rights by other men.” (Black’s Law Dictionary 1st ed.). Clarifying original fact, natural law intent, and de jure jurisprudence: “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” (Thomas Jefferson) “The Natural Liberty of Man is to be free from any Superior Power on Earth, and not to be under the Will or Legislative Authority of Man, but to have only the Law of Nature for his Rule.” (John Locke - second most quoted source for creation of the Constitution) “Personal liberty, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or natural Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property ⋯ and is regarded as inalienable.” (16 C.J.S., Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987). Liberty, under “the laws of nature and of nature’s God” (Declaration of Independence) – natural law, is the state of exercising all inalienable rights. “All men are created equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; among which are the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing the obtaining of happiness and safety.” (George Mason)

    A body of servants that serve to protect and enhance individual sovereignty, inalienable rights, liberty and "the laws of nature and of nature's God" (Declaration of Independence — natural law as stated in and used by my definition above); — That being contrary to a body politic (government) that creates and enforces compelled compliance, government licenses, victimless crimes and larceny with impunity (2nd plank of the communist manifesto, Social Security, police state confiscations, tribute for property, etc.).

    Waffler, with the facts in print before you, please mention one government that is not opposite liberty.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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     -- jim k, Austin      
     
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