"The threat of people acting in their own enlightened
and rational self-interest strikes bureaucrats, politicians
and social workers as ominous and dangerous."
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“P.T. Book Perpetual Traveler”, 1985, by W. G. Hill and Harry Schultz
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Reader comments about this quote:
 -- a fan, any town      
Imagine that! People acting in their own best interest.
 -- Joe, Rochester, MI     
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     -- Logan, Memphis, TN      
    I wish you would tell us who W. G. Hill is and when he or she was born, etc. I like bios with my quotes; it gives the quote more substance. mgriff@everestkc.net
     -- Anonymous, Kansas City MO     
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    I see, we just accuse a few groups of people of supporting a preposterous position and all the right wingers can cheer and be happy. Please show me one of these, bureaucrats politicians and social workers who believes such a thing. Those who openly support such a position tend top come from the extremes of the political spectrum, not the liberal middle. The current extreme right Republican government acts in the best interests of about 5% of the poplulation yet had the support of 50% until recently and they like it just find that way, thank you very much. Do you think George Bush and his neo-cons want you to think for yourself and act in your own interest? If you did, they would be lynched and there would never be another Republican elected again.
     -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada     
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    This is really what it is all about -- more neighbors sticking their noses into things that are none of their business. How many times do we have to beat off with a stick those that are trying to 'save us' from ourselves -- who will save us from them?! Such high and mighty arrogance -- "If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intent of doing you good, you should run for your life." -- Henry David Thoreau
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Simon; "... preposterous position ..." - "Please show me one of these, bureaucrats politicians and social workers who believes such a thing." . . . "Do you think George Bush and his neo-cons want you to think for yourself and act in your own interest?"

    Which position is the 'preposterous' one? No really, I'm not clear as to what you mean (in the indicated parts, that is).
     -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA     
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    Terry - this comment is a typical rant against having any kind of social programs, given 5 stars by right wing Bush supporters. They would typically only blame liberal politicians for this, yes I agree with you, and that is my point, that the very worst offenders here are the right wingers these people support.
     -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada     
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    um..the preposterous position is the quote that is the subject of this discussion. (Gives me another chance to thumbs down on this one)
     -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada     
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    It is not about right and left. It is about right and wrong. The left thinks it is right, while the right thinks that the left is wrong. And the left thinks that the right is wrong, while the right thinks that the right is right. The right is right about a few things and the left is also right about a few things. But what the left refuses to acknowledge is that a far right has usually been much less abusive than a far left. Both extremes are wrong. It is wrong to force people to abandon their faith in order to avoid extermination, a method lately used by all the major far left factions. It is wrong to force people to work as hard as they can but only receive compensation equal to what a lazy slouch receives. It is wrong to support lazy bums. And it is wrong to allow acquisition of as much as you can get, regardless of the impact on others. Wrong is wrong, on the right or on the left.
     -- David L. Rosenthal, Hollywood     
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    Thanks for the clarification Simon. But really - 'Vote Early - Vote Often??' LOL Oh well, the absurdity of the 'quote' kept me from 'rating' it at all.
     -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA     
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    Sit on your thumb, Simon.
     -- David L. Rosenthal, Hollywood     
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    Classy David! - and so well thought out.
     -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA     
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    An astute observation in the obvious. The Democratic Oligarchy has replaced the Representative Republic. Traffic cops revenueing for their pay raise and pension, politicians feeding special interest, etc., etc., etc. for votes are but a couple of examples of Hill's quote.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    David - to say that the far left is more wrong than the far right is completely irrelevant to any political discussion I have heard since about 1989. There is no far left "left" in the western world! And good riddance. There is a However an extremely nasty and dangerous far right currently in power in the USA and it likes to confuse people by claiming that the moderate middle is in fact socialist and/or communist. John Kerry a Socialist! Al Gore a Communist! Hillary Clinton a Red! How utterly absurd, these people are actually moderate CONSERVATIVES, I would put all of these to the Right of the centre, but very close to it. This deception is one of the great lies of our times, a huge number of people seem to think that the only choice is between the George Bush's neo-fascism and Socialism/Communism. You will see it every time a right winger is challenged. Liberals and Democrats are being called socialists and communists all the time.
     -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada     
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    I live a little over 100 miles from a regime that claims to be far left, with a population of 11 million slaves. Simon, you are so, so wrong (and left).
     -- David L. Rosenthal, Hollywood     
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    I presume you mean Cuba? Again, what does socialist/communist Cuba have to do with politics in the USA or the western democracies? Where am I wrong? Are you telling me that liberals and democrats love Castro's Cuba and with to emulate it??? Then you are totally beyond reason!
     -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada     
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    Pssst, Simon ... not so loud.
    You know as well as I do that if you're not in lockstep with the minarchists, (check out 'uncle Miltie') you're a 'socialistic, communistic, anti-republican, anti-constitutionalistic, pro-'slavery', pro-'forced compassion', pro-'forced education', pro-'thievery' threat to 'our' belief system.
     -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA     
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    Simon, since you appear to be new to this blog, let me say that given some time I think you will see that there are very few Bush supporters here among those that gave this quote 5 stars, so just because people disagree with your very 'leftist' view points (apparently obvious to most everyone but Simon) does not automatically make them right wing neo-cons -- far from it. Personally, I welcome your arguments as it provides good practice for speaking with well-indoctrinated collectivists that seem to think that we all need their help and guidance -- forget about the fact that the costs of Canadian social services are laid firmly on the backs of the another generation -- thanks, Mum. Canadian economic security rests on the Canadian Shield -- 1000 years of resources -- that is what makes Canada rich -- just go dig it up and sell it to the Chinese. ;-)
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    There are 54 US congressional representatives registeredin socialist parties, many of who are friends of Castro and in favor of normalizing relations with Castro's genocidal regime. The same sob's want to abolish the 2nd amendment, and take arms away from the people, just like Hitler, Stalin, and Castro did. Simon, you are uninformed.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    Thanks for the condescension, I suppose I might be willing to admit that I find myself as insulted and misunderstood by you as perhaps you are by me. Very Left? Moi? Indoctrinated Collectivist? Moi? David - what is the name of this Socialistic party that these 54 congresspeople belong to? If the US can have normal relations with communist chins, the middle east authoritarian monarchies and every fascist police state of the last 100 years (many of which it installed) then Castro is hardly any worse. The only reason relations with Cuba have not be normalized is to try to win the florida cuban exile vote. It is only when a foreign leader nationalizes US corporations in his country that he becomes an enemy of the US, the freedom and democracy that he does or does not permit his people has nothing to do with it. As for your guns, Canada has a higher per capita gun ownership than the US, we just don't choose to kill each other with them at nearly the same rate. Do not confuse gun control with a gun prohibition, sure I believe in gun control and licensing, if its good enough for your car, its good enough for your gun. I presume there is some line you will draw where it comes to personal armaments? Automatic weapons? Machine guns? Artillery pieces? Flame throwers? What? M1 tanks maybe? Nukes? Where do you draw the line on someone buying a gun? 12 year old? 6 year old? Mental deficient? Just got out of jail for armed robbery? Stoned out of his head on PCP? What?
     -- Simon, Victoria     
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    You questioned the connection between Cuba and the USA, Simon, so I answered your question. The USA should not be doing business with any genoicidal regimes. That you are uninformed is not your vice. Your vice is that you are proud of it.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    There is a Cuban exile vote, of course, but it is much smaller than the Red Chinese vote or the Arab vote.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    David, Just how many 'Red Chinese' vote in the US? Or is it that being 'Chinese' makes one 'Red'?
    I'd also be curious as to the names of these 'socialist parties' you keep referring to, and the names of these 54 US congressional representatives registered in these socialist parties. I do hope that you actually know the answer and can supply it to everyone. We are uninformed. Inform us.
     -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA     
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     -- Anonymous      
     -- Anonymous      
    The main reason there is no far left is that the "progressives" and "moderates" have moved so far that there is very little wiggle room remaining.
     -- Gary, St Thomas     
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    The key words here are "enlightened and rational". That is what set the original USA apart from the rest of the world. The foundation of that nation which was the land of the free / home of the brave was to be natural law (as is averse to legal positivism and legal realism - the current abomination, theocracies, monarchies, socialism - communism to fascism, arguments of left and right, good and bad, right and wrong). Today the Union of Socialist Amerika (USA) is a lawless government of men.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    De jure juries in the Constitutionally limiting Representative Republic are to determine fact and law. When was the last time anyone heard a jury say: "these are the facts - through our observation; these are true and those are not. AND, what is the natural law, does the statute fit the law in this case, and does the accursed's actions break that law in an injury to an innocent third party." When was the last time anyone heard a legislator say: "I can determine the natural law by logic, reason, observation, history, experience, etc." and then try and formulate a statute in harmony with such law. All we ever hear is unenlightened and irrational emotional and religious good or bad, left / right, or what should morally be. Individual sovereigns, in full use of their inalienable rights, acting in their own enlightened and rational self-interest are ominous and dangerous threats to bureaucrats, politicians and social workers in a de jure representative republic.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Don't most ALL bureaucrats, politicians and social workers belong to one party or another? (Democrat, Republican or Independent) With that said, it seems to me that with Simon's comments, the political party he supports does not believe in an enlightened and rational free thinking republic of individuals.
     -- DJ, Decatur     
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    Simon is Canadian, what can I say. Yes, today's socialist/communist bureaucrats are terrified of anyone who uses logic and self-interest to further their own agenda. If everyone did that, there would be no need for the thousands and thousands of bureaucrats we are plagued with today. Ayn Rand is the devil incarnate to liberals because she touts selfishness (self-interest) as the only way to survive in this world. Of course any liberal will tell you that SELFISH is a bad word. It's only because they don't understand the theory of liberty and freedom. Anyone who puts other people over their own self-interests is essentially mentally ill and a danger to a free society. Anyone who would put total trust in a government to look after their own self-interest is either too stupid to vote or belongs in a mental institute where they can be looked after 24/7. Freedom and liberty come at a cost. Just ask George Washington or Lincoln (of course, that's not a literal request to you liberals out there). Read our history for once in your miserable little lives and you find out what it means to live in a free society. You will also find out what it takes to create and maintain a free society, and accepting aid and comfort from the government as your mainstay in life is NOT the way to do it. However, it IS the way to lose your freedom and liberty. Lazy people could care less and I class all liberals as either lazy or conniving to find ways to live free off the government. Me, I'd rather live free with as little government as possible. A totally different of the meaning of the word "free."
     -- GunnyCee, Durham     
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    Do you think George Bush and his neo-cons want you to think for yourself and act in your own interest? If you did, they would be lynched and there would never be another Republican elected again. -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada Simon, I would think that you and your Nazi-socialists would have loved George Bush and his "neo-cons" If they were so enamored of looking out for the people and not letting them think for themselves. So why do you people insist on trashing them? Don't bother to answer, I know the reason. It's because you folks live in two different worlds at the same time (a parallel universe), and double-think and double-talk are second nature to you.
     -- GunnyCee, Durham     
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    Mike, you will happy to know that a NYC judge dismissed charges against 80-year-old Julian Heicklen for distributing pamphlets from the Fully Informed Jury Association in front of a federal courthouse in Manhattan. U.S. District Judge Kimba Wood dismissed jury-tampering charges brought by the FBI in a 'sting' operation saying, "Heicklen advocates passionately for the right of jurors to determine the law as well as the facts. The pamphlets state that a juror has not just the responsibility to determine the facts of a case before her on the basis of the evidence presented, but also the power to determine the law according to her conscience." The judge said Heicklen correctly understood his legal rights. See: http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/04/23/45865.htm
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Archer, wow, that does make me happy. A spark of freedom does seem to be growing. Thank you - great story !
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    Very good. For a bio and to see more of his stuff go to www.therealgrandpa.com
     -- Grumpy 1, Monaco     
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    Gee -- see what a limited number of words can do to a group of people. I thought the original was pretty clear and without studying it, decided there was merit in it. It made me feel my position in the listing was positive, seeing myself as "people" as opposed to bureaucrats, politicians and social workers .. and yes, if I don't look after my own self-interest, who will ?.
     -- Bobble, No. Ferrisburgh, VT     
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    The quote is right on target.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    A trigger point, Simply put, very, very accurate. Independence well lived in a rural area, comes at a high cost of oppression in the city. To the point, not so long ago, Liberty plundered for the sake of wage slaves in the city. Therefor, not hard to see where the corral is, the hot wires, snares, nets, laid at the feet of all those who would wish to leave. So much so, temptation to lie for survivals sake, breeds contempt among citizens. Capitalizing individuals, through education and applied experience, always envied by the lazy, admired by the industrious. Never blame success, if you don't have it.
     -- Ronw13, Logsden     
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