"The people have always some champion
whom they set over them and nurse into greatness...
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs,
when he first appears he is a protector."
by:
Plato
(429-347 BC) Greek philosopher
Source:
The Republic
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Reader comments about this quote:
The government is the people's new (socialist/fascist) church with officials being giving a priestly reverrnce as protectors. No longer bound by any limits of a Constitutional Representative Republic, the people's most sacred beliefs support tyrannical cannon as law. Last election we had Republican champions, this year Democrat - tyrants all.
 -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    As with Mike, my first thoughts went to the strong parallel to organized religion... only time will tell how the new batch (2006.11) in Congress will rule... I'm not so jaded as to prejudge their performance or to assume the worse of them...
     -- Anonymous, Reston, VA US     
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    I agree 100% with Mike, Norwalk
     -- Mike, Mount Holly, NC     
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     -- Robert, Sarasota      
    The entire premise of a Constitutional Republic made up of independent sovereign republics made up of independent sovereign individuals is to keep power distributed and away from centralized control. The whole idea of a 'champion' (political or religious) who will 'save us' is absolutely contrary to a free people.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Excuse me if I continue to believe and insist that even our American system of government, call it what you like, is overrated and incapable of putting right a world that badly needs reform. The total value of inept individual sovereignty is more destructive and barbaric than its parts.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    The purpose of American government is absolutely not to 'put right a world badly in need of reform'. That is an individual's responsibility, not government's.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    If what you say is true, Mike, how do you explain the sea change that occured last week? The officials who were given "priestly reverence" are gone (except the chief priest - and his days are numbered, maybe fewer than he imagines). You are too cynical of the way this government and its Constitution work. It may be cumbersome and slow at times, but that's the way the founders wanted it. I give the quote three stars on being half right, though. It may usually be true tyranny arises from the poor choice of the people, but it is not limited to that. It can come from outside or a coup from within and not at the choosing of the general public.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    If what you say is correct, Archer, then we are in trouble indeed. How could an individual reform the world, without the collaboration of all other individuals, including the ones who run governments?
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    An individual should not be reforming the world, David -- the individual reforms himself. The 'needed reform' is the opinion of the individual -- he has no right to 'reform' anyone else based on his own ideology -- in fact, that would be a violation of the rights of others (besides being extremely arrogant). That's something proselytisers should get through their heads.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    OK, Archer, then what should an individual do to reform a system that abuses rights, or that does not function as it is supposed to function? Or should the individual just live with it, since it is not his job to reform it, according to you? To reform the world, or to reform any given system or process or aspect of it, is the job of anyone who takes it upon himself. There are plenty of areas in which reform would be a good thing. So who made you boss to decide what my job is?
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    David, do you seriously believe it is the province of America, if it could, to put right a "world that badly needs reform"? ...that "the total value of inept individual sovereignty is more destructive and barbaric than its parts"? (whatever all that means) It sounds a bit like a potential international tyrant forming to me. I hope America never sets on such a course, but I suppose much of the world already thinks it has.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    Once again the team of Archer and Jack team up to twist and distort whatever is in their path. What you insinuate with regard to my statements is not what I stated, but the glee you apparently enjoy in doing so is your only reward. You only denigrate yourselves by revealing your own shortcomings, either the inability to reason or the lack of desire to reason genuinely. It is pathetic and I feel sorry for you.
     -- David L Rosenthal     
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    The question "Who made you boss?" should be directed to you, David, not Archer. You seem to push the idea of putting the world in order I didn't hear Archer say that. He said an individual should not be reforming the world ..the individual reforms himself.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    What to reform is for the reformer to decide, and for the rest to support or oppose. Jack is not the arbiter of this issue. Each individual is in his own case.
     -- David L Rosenthal     
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    But when all is said and done, only those who want to reason honestly will reason honestly, and the rest will distort, lie, slander, libel, defraud, deceive, misrepresent, and mislead at every opportunity, since they wish to and take delight in doing so. They are just like that. They are different from honest people. They just are. And they don't care about anything but their own opinions and desires. That is why the world can't be fixed, because too many people like the twisted way the world is now. Of course, if you really believe that the world does not need to be fixed, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is incomprehensible.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    I have no idea what you're getting at, David. Just give up the idea of reforming the world, even if you think it badly needs it, and reform thyself. Let others reform themselves Besides a real reform was made, legitimately, last week, so we should all be happy. The people have spoken.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    You are contradicting yourself, Jack, which simply supports my statements that you claim not to understand.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    David, it may come as a surprise to you but those with differing opinions than yours are not 'twisted', 'slanderous', 'liars', etc.. Not all of us believe we 'know' and judge others as harshly as you do. I can tell you are a 'christian' -- not because your words inspire us to goodness but because you condemn everyone else who opposes your dogmatic viewpoint. We used to sing in church, "and they'll know we are Christians by our love" -- you might want to give it a try -- it would certainly help the image of christians today.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    You are not a liar because you disagree with me. You are a liar because you refuse to reason honestly, refuse to refer to others' statements in their original context, according to the meaning of the author, and because you take delight in misleading others. If you are not a liar, you just don't have the ability to reason correctly. In either case, you have a problem that should be obvious to those who do reason honestly. You can't mislead all of the people all of the time.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    The one thing you said right all evening, David, is: I don't understand your argument. All I get is you want to reform the world, and Clinton advocates limiting personal freedoms. That's the sum total of what I got out of all you said..
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    You are losing it, Jack. Go to sleep. I mean, go to bed, you are already asleep. You should just put on your favorite music and forget all about trying to think.
     -- David L Rosenthal     
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    OK David. I'll do that; but I still need to know what Democrat is for limiting freedoms. I won't rest until I find out. It's an oxymoron.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    Start at home, Jack. You were saying that individuals should not reform society or government, but should limit their reform efforts to themselves. You were saying, therefeore, that others should govern their behavior as you would direct, according to your opinion. That is an attempt to limit the free exercise of the free will of another, and to limit it in the attempt to foster improvement. Then you refer to the "real reform" brought about through elections, which contradicts your former assertion. So which is it, Jack, should the individual attempt to reform society or not? So you think gays have rights problems? State specifically which ones, because as far as I can see, the laws only move toward greater support of gays as time goes by. What rtights problems do gays have? That they can't legally sleep with minors? Demonstrators' rights abused? In what way? Women's rights abused? In what way? It is much easier to spout nonsense than to justify it.
     -- David L Rosenthal     
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    I am the stupidest one here, because I am trying to persuade someone, about whom I am already convinced that he cannopt be persuaded.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    That's not the only reason you are stupid, David. Your arrogance and self-righteousness blind you, thus you are bound and tied by your condemnations of others. That's OK -- fanatics are usually very fanatic about one thing then become fanatically against it later. There may be hope for you yet.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    It seems the prophet Samuel said much the same thing---- This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. 12And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. 13And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 14And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. 15And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. 16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. 17He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. 18And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
     -- Ken, Allyn, WA     
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    This quote is true BUT from the same "nurseing of greatness' has brought us great leaders.In my eyes. Abe Lincoln, FDR, Thomas Jefferson to name a few. Again,in my eyes.
     -- Me Again     
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    I confess to arrogance, Archer, but deny self-righteousness.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    Hey, Me Again: FDR was a great leader? He was the worst thing that ever happened to America in the 20th century. He bankrupted the US, stole the entire country's gold supply and gave it to the Feds in exchange for an unpayable debt. He is the father of Socialism in America! Some hero. The New Deal was a Raw Deal.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Were you around in depression days Archer? I was. Ever heard of the stock market Crash or '29? That was way before FDR took office, March '33..The Great Depression was caused by mismanagement in 1930-31, after the Crash, before FDR was even running for president. Business ran the country in the "roaring 20s" (not all legal businesses either because of Prohibition). The depression could have been avoided in 1930 had it not been for several things the Republicans did then. The Feds did the exact opposite of what they do now when things slow down. Instead of increasing the money supply, they reduced it by a third. That would have been bad enough but Congress enacted the devastating Smoot-Hawley act of 1930. There were other things, but those were enough. Roosevelt would never have been elected had the country not already been "bankrupt" The Republicans were so entrenched, they could almoey appoiny the president in the '20s. That's how we got Harding, Coolidge and Hoover. They had already wrecked the economy before FDR even ran. So don't go blaming him for the Depression. He tried everything to restore confidence, which was at an all time low. Things like WPA and SSA were immensely successful ...NRA was not, and so it went. It actually took WWII to really get us fully restore the economy, but things kept getting better every year till the war.. I remember it well. Although I was still in school, it was about all people talked about.
     -- Jack, Green, OH     
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    Although I do not contradict what Ken has quoted ("16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work."), I insist that no king will ever take my asses.
     -- David L. Rosenthal     
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    WOW! True then and true today.
     -- Fred, Ontario Canada     
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    change we damn sure can believe in.
     -- Kimo, Hawaiian Nation     
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    Really...? The people "nurse" the corrupt champions? Here I was thinking the champion nursing was getting done by the elitist banksters, like Obama bankrolling the biggest campaign war chest of all time, or Hitler's backing being the Ashkenazi Zionist Jews... The Rothschild's funding the leadership on the both sides of every war since the revolutionary war. Let me guess, Plato thought The People chose Caesar and the Kings of ages past and Emperor's of China, Ottoman, Persian and the rest of the extinct empires. This is nonsense. The people who buy the leadership and nurture in them a strong sense of tyranny are not The People but a minority of people so minuscule yet so dominant by birth to massive finance.
     -- DanielVincentKelleyOnYoutube, Newport Vermont     
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    "The whole idea of a 'champion' (political or religious) who will 'save us' is absolutely contrary to a free people." Well, said, Archer!!! While a 'champion' initially might appear to be a godsend, ultimately it would be enervating.
     -- Byron, Fort Collins     
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    "Yes we can Yes we can Yes we can"...Idiots.
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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