"The whole freedom of man consists either in spiritual or civil liberty."
by:
John Milton
(1608-1674) English Poet
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It is BOTH to me, spiritual and civil. I dont know how to rate this one
 -- Kimo, USA     
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    Whether it's in spirtual or civil liberty is a moot point provided you have one or the other...one gaurantees the other.
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    The reality of the issue is, the civil is nothing more than an administrative adjunct of the spiritual. History is replete with examples of where freedom, liberty, the rights of the individual, etc. are not defined with an origin outside man's temporal existence. At that vacuum, despots have always vainly usurped the Godly ability to create law and exercise tyranny. If liberty is entreated as a uniquely civil issue, the carnal despot will claim it derives from him and then athoritatively, give and take at his whim. When freedom, liberty and inalienable rights are addressed as deriving from an extra human experience, such remains intact.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    I will effect my world the only way I know how.........by remaining peacfull in mind (spirit) and body, and holding the beautiful, powerful vision of the future I desire. In Quantum Physics, it is understood that everything is spirit/energy, and what I need to do is to observe what I envision, and not the optical illusion/delusion (reality) before me. Although, if I need to, I will Occupy a Wall-ed in Street of greed, or 2.........and show up to let those who are rulling our world with an iron fist know that I know what they have done (and are doing), and to give them the chance to rethink their ideas and actions towards me and my fellow human-beings, before me and the other 98 people that are standing beside me, stop their profit-driven agenda of unbridaled power, and explain in no uncertain terms that the other 99 people will also be included in this world we all share, or We The People will provide them with a one-way-trip to mars (poor mars!). It is a simple equation.......99 to 1! The equation is proved by the fact that they have had to hide or keep secret their agenda in order to get the 99 to fall in line (led around by the ring in their nose, living their life as unthinking drones, asleep)......through manipulation, fear tactics, and decite the 1 % have gotten the upper hand - but only as long as the sheep remain in the dark (if they allowed the Patriot Act, etc., then they are still sleepy-heads!) If the apparently helpless sheep ever decide to open their eyes and see what is going on right before them, it is game over for the 1! AND, the 1 know this fact.....it is simple math. So, spirit is what I AM, and we ALL are (even those with whom I disagree, and may be living on mars soon), but showing up is what this world is all about, it is an experiencial plane of existence, so show up I do.....AND shout out to the world the hidden TRUTH behind the lies in case anyone is waking up with in ear shot! The 1% in America live under a Socialistic system (corporate welfare for the rich ie: the Paulson/Bush Jr, 850 billion $ bail out to the International bankers to hide the crimes of Goldman Sucks, and the rest of the gang of predatory financial thugs, & 90 billion $ handed to them every year under the gise of R & D!, & on & on & on & on)......the rest of us live under predatory capitalism, to be harvested ("farmed" is the correct term they use to describe it). I hope Ron Paul is elected so we can see if capitaism really does work? How would we know, when we haven't lived that way for 200 years, if even then? But, I am sure the sleepy-sheep will go for one of the repub pony's on display...and the status quo/harvesting will continue, just as the 1 has planned. We shall see.............. If I am going to live under a big spender that wants to dictate to the American people, then I will elect a real dem (Pres Obama), instead of these liberals dressed like repubs calling themselves conservative (giggle hahaha), and being anything but in actuality! Hypocrites! FYI~ Regan raised the debt ceiling 18 times (of the 70) in 8 years, and enacted the largest NON-war time tax on the people in history (I am sure only the dwindeling middle class were taxed, so whew! The rich were safe with him!) Bush Jr, spent more than any other president in history (liberal or otherwise), and on what? Wars and the "good ol boys club" he and his cronies belong to. NAFTA CAFTA and ALL THE OTHER AFTA's the repubs install (they are trying to shove 3 through Congress right now!), are destroying this world, and making slaves of the people who live under those deadly American installed dictaors. I've decided to put being a HUMAN before party! I hope more will stand up for what is right.........so, you say that is subjective? Well, ask yourself, "what would I want if I were them?" then THAT ANSWER is the RIGHT thing, my friend! Simple! peace~
     -- Krista Carlton, Palm Springs     
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    Krista, long tomes are seldom read.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    I'm with Mike on this one.  The very heart of human civilization is traced to the these strictly human concepts of Spiritual and Civil.  Civil law refers to the statutes of men, while Natural Law refers to the laws of nature.  The Spirit precedes the Civil, and when the civil law is not in accord with natural law, there will be dis-ease and dis-chord.  The less civil laws the better, in fact that is the primary difference between a republican form of government based upon the Common Law and virtually any other type of government which places the State supreme and the People in subservience to its dictates.

    The cause of Liberty has always been a spiritual pursuit breaking free from oppressive civil laws.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Spiritual liberty, Eleutheria, manumission from slavery gives way for Apeleutheros liberty, a Freed man having access to the presence of God outside the bounds of the then/now current  orthodoxy. 
     -- Ronw13, Idaho     
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     -- jim k, austin      
     
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