"There are two freedoms --
the false, where a man is free to do what he likes;
the true, where a man is free to do what he ought."
by:
Charles Kingsley
(1819-1875) English clergyman, university professor, historian, and novelist
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Interesting....I will have to think about that some more, but I find it very insightful.
 -- Ben, Orem, UT     
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    there is always the free man that likes doing what he ought
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    The truly free does do what he ought, for otherwise he is driven by forces that are leading him down the wrong path...
     -- Anonymous, Reston, VA, US     
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    Here we go again "Universal" freedom is to do what you like, "true" freedom is to do what you ought. Where does one learn about this "oughtness" may I ask. Would it could it be from parents, religion, Ten Commandments, society, neighbors, others. Maybe this quote will help Carlton and Mike to answer the question of "What is freedom" to them. This quote implies that it involves a doing and aciton. Maybe it will get them thinking.
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Freedom is the ability to achieve excellence without being robbed or coreced Waffler. It comes with responsibility for your own actions and respect for the rights of others to do the same. Simple enough?
     -- J Carlton, Calgary     
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    Waff,unlike yourself, I think that Mike and Carlton do a lot of thinking. My definition of freedom is that people should be able to do as they please as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Naturally government doesn't agree and thus we have all the victomless crime laws and a gazillion government restrictions from the control freaks in Washington.
     -- jim k, Austin     
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    Deep and profound. Brings up some interesting questions.
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    "FREEDOM IS THE ABSENCE OF LEGISLATION."--Merrill Jenkins, (1919-1979) Monetary Realist, inventor of the dollar bill changer and author of 7 books with the first being: "Money", The Greatest Hoax On Earth and the last 6 free on web at www.morpix.biz/x15. Ignore any religious comments on that site. If you google merrill jenkins money you will find nearly 2 million sites where 12 years ago, only one site. Jenkins had NO PEERS! I knew him well.
     -- Dave Wilber, st. Louis     
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    I agree with jim k. The quote speaks about the freedom to do wrongs upon others and the freedom to do what he ought, the right things to do to others. Each is a choice that everyone has.
     -- Anon     
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    Mike, I responded to your remarks in yesterdays Heinrich Heine quote and am letting you know at this time. Thanks.
     -- Anon     
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    If you are totally free there is no "ought". If there is an ought then you are not absolutely free. Good news today, apparently another tax cheat is dead, hallelujah!
     -- Waffler, Smith     
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    Anon, thanks, I agree
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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     -- Wayne, Naples      
    Freedom is in the eye of the beholder
     -- RBESRQ     
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    Robert, lol, way too true. Waffler's freedom is brutal, despotic and strangles the non-willing slave. Nature's freedom is inconceivable, fearful and harsh to the at heart and mind slave. The world outside the original U.S. accommodated Waffler's freedom. The representative republic, limited by the Constitution was to be the shining light for those who loved unlimited expression at law, justice, and nature's freedom.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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    To Waffler that said. "Good news today, apparently an other tax cheat is dead, hallelujah!"---To find joy in the death of anyone is sick to say the least and one of the reasons war continues to be the preferred means to bring peace to the world and because of this line of thought, world peace will never be attained.
     -- Anon     
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    To Waffler who said "If you are totally free there is no "ought". If there is an ought then you are not absolutely free."----You've touched on a truth that many, even some patriots, miss along the way. Whether we like it or not, we are naturally enslaved to these self evident natural laws written in the library etched into the subconscious of our minds and the sooner we realize it, the better all of mankind will be.
     -- Anon     
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    When what I 'ought' to do is determined by my principles and my agreements, I have already chosen to do what I ought -- I am bound by my promises.

    But if what I 'ought' to do is compelled upon me against my will, or imposed by intimidation or threat, then I am not free to act at all yet will have to bear the consequences none-the-less.

    If what I like is in harmony with what I ought, it doesn't get any better than that, does it? Well, it depends on the consequences -- sometimes we 'ought' what we really shouldn't, but making the mistake is the way to learn. Ought we not to allow others to do what they oughtn't so that they might learn the error of their ways? It depends on the severity of the consequences, I suppose.

    I am free to act or abstain from acting, but I am never free from the consequences. Conscience is the ruler of the freeman, and the Golden Rule is still golden. ;-)
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    were I to add anything to what has already been opined, would be redundant. Thank you, Anon, Archer, Mike, and RBESRQ
     -- warrdoc, Elk Grove     
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    The responsibility of honesty coupled with a wholesome life, instilling the true value of Brakah Liberty, blessed by that which good is. Echoing the sentiments of Lord Acton, " Liberty is not the power of doing what we like, but the right of being able to do what we ought."
     -- Ronw13, Oregon     
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    Waffler, I can copy and paste this as many times as you like or as many times as you or other liberals, progressives, socialists, etc. want to put a new meaning to the here subject terms.

    Freedom is: “The state of being free; liberty; self determination:” (Black’s Law Dictionary 1st Edition); “the power or liberty to order one's own actions” (Colins English Dictionary); “The ability to act at liberty.” (Webster’s Dictionary)

    Liberty is: “The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature.” (Bouvier’s Law Dictionary) Liberty is the “exemption from extraneous control. The power of the will, in its moral freedom, to follow the dictates of its unrestricted choice, and to direct the external acts of the individual without restraint, coercion, or control from other persons. Liberty is the right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere with an equal exercise of the same rights by other men.” (Black’s Law Dictionary 1st ed.). Clarifying original fact, natural law intent, and de jure jurisprudence: “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” (Thomas Jefferson) “Personal liberty, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or natural Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property ⋯ and is regarded as inalienable.” (16 C.J.S., Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987).

     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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