Barry Goldwater Quote

"And here we encounter the seeds of government disaster and collapse --
the kind that wrecked ancient Rome and every other civilization
that allowed a sociopolitical monster called the welfare state to exist."

by:	Barry Goldwater (1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona)
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Categories:	Government, History, Politics, Socialism, Welfare
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Welfare, those handing it out (politicians), and those accepting it, are surely driving our country to destruction.  -- Joe, Rochester, MI      5
Of course the empire as a whole lasted over 500 years and the eastern half lasted almost 1500 years. If our nation ever becomes that old we'll be able to compare the effectiveness of the two systems.  -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA      2
It isn't the welfare system that is bankrupting and destroying the USA it is the military industrial complex, bought politicians and welfare for the wealthy combined with tax breaks for the wealthy that are bankrupting america. Got to throw in the massive ignorance of its people, a third of whom don't care because they are awaiting the return of Jesus and another third who think its good thing and everything is going well because that is what the government tells them.  -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada      1 5
Yes, take a look at Canada, Sweden, Finland, and other 'successful' welfare states -- after adding up all the taxes, the citizens of these countries get to keep 25% of their money. But that is a choice -- America is not supposed to be a welfare state, so if you want to join the welfare club, then feel free to immigrate there. The Canadian economy is only just now coming back after crashing terribly. But now that the US is on a slide, Canada's dollar is on the rise. It is all the same system -- Canada lives off the backs of the third world just like the US. Simon is simply parroting the party line. The ignorance is not understanding how money works and how both the US and Canadian governments are totally beholden to their private central bankers -- who are the source of all economic booms and busts. Charity is best left to private individuals and associations. If we are simply talking about insurance, then fine, but insurance is not a RIGHT but merely a commercial service -- it is in fact a form of gambling. There is nothing wrong with that, but forcing people to gamble is not exactly government's 'right'. I support public Health Insurance and Social Security, but participation must be voluntary -- those who wish to manage their own affairs, let them! "Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone." -- Frederic Bastiat  -- E Archer, NYC      7
I think the people who are parroting the party line are the ones who consistently give 5 stars to every single right wing quote. In Canada, our tax freedom day is June 1st, so we get to keep a bit more than half, that includes all provincial and federal taxes and point of purchase taxes, everything, and my monthly payment for my health care. When did the Canadian economy "crash terribly"? That is news to me, I must have missed it. We have had a budget surplus every year for 8 years running. Same with a trade surplus, mostly with the USA. Our social security system is intact. I agree that a social system is very much like insurance. Everyone pays in, some people take out more than they pay in over their lifetimes, some people take out less, just like your house insurance and your car insurance, which are also compulsory! (House insurance is compulsory if you have a mortgage, which most people do.) Most people will pay 10s of thousands of dollars in compulsory car and house insurance over their lifetimes and never see a penny in return. Once in a while though disaster might strike and rather than lose millions you will be covered. Why can't you see health insurance and Social Security in the same way?  -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada      3
Yes, the Senator and Professor Tytler are on the same page. It is fascinating to read Tytler's foreboding and recognize the phases toward disaster that the U.S. has already passed.  -- William Wheeler, Lexington, KY
Uncontrolled welfare benefit allocation, uncontrolled support of undocumented aliens, self-preservation of the IRS, outrageous misallocation of education funds (on which we spend more than on national defense, with no obvious benefit), and corruption at all levels of every government.......  -- David L. Rosenthal, Hollywood      2
Depending on your definition of successful, all socialist governments are losing the fiscally sound battle, there are always ups and downs, but losing the battle all the same; some quicker than others.  -- Mike, Norwalk      5
Mike - If by "socialist governments" you are referring to Canada and Western Europe then you need to check your figures. The country that is losing the "fiscally sound battle" is the USA - you are bankrupt, you have no industrial or technological base, just service industries, your dollar is going to drop like a rock when the rest of the world pulls the plug on you bringing on a recession that will make you long for the 1930s. And you can blame it all on your so called "free market" that is merely a license for greed.  -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada      4
Well, let's see - what are we still good at producing? Automobiles - no, television sets - no, small appliances - no, linens, towels, bedding - no, clothing - no, fabrics - no, telephones - no, food - yes, lumber - some, ceramics including tile - no, portland cement - yes, vaccines - no, boats - no, tools - a few, and so on. Our space vehicles are like trucks fresh from the dust bowl days. Look around your home and count the things made in the USA - good luck. You may think the majority of drugs made by US companies are made in the US - no. Oh yeah, there are armaments. Are we still good at making them? Yes - with foreign parts specced by us. We can, however, still produce a Big Mac - with some imported help. Our major 'strength' during the last decade was intellectual property. Have you checked out the school system lately? It's not promising. Our national debt? That's (mostly) how much of the US other nations own. Hell, we're in good shape!  -- Terry Berg, Occidental, CA      1
Yes, Canada crashed, where were you, Simon? Remember when it was $1.25US to $1.00 Canadian and then it went down to .65 for 1 Canadian dollar only a few years ago? After 15 years, the Canadian dollar is finally on the rise at about .85 -- but that is only because the US dollar is falling. Canadians lost 50% of their purchasing power over the last 10 years! The high tech market crashed around 2002 and has been gradually coming back. Gas prices are soaring -- and have been nearly twice as high as the US for ages. And Canada IS bankrupt (as is the US) -- every Canadian dollar in circulation has been borrowed, and the Canadian debt is even higher -- so how will Canada pay it back? The budget surplus, BTW, is the amount the government didn't spend -- but it was all still borrowed anyway -- where did that extra money go? Back to the bank? No! ;-) Simon, with the utmost respect, do some due diligence, don't take my word for it. (as if you would) ;-)  -- E Archer, NYC      3
I don't quiet understand your banking points but the Canadian economy did not collapse. The Canadian dollar did drop to 62 cents US at one point, this was considered good for exports, we didn't have a depression here. We didn't even have the recession that you had in 2000 - 2002. Our gas prices are high at the pump for the same reason that Europes are even higher - we tax gas more heavily than you do. Canada's national debt is much lower than the US as a percent of GDP or any other way you want to look at it, and we are paying it down every year. And right now, which is more important, the Canadian dollar, if it matters so much, is at a 14 year high, almost 90 cents, and seen as one of the strongest currencies in the world. However you want to look at it, Canada is performing better than the US, so perhaps you need to examine your greed based system a little more closely.  -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada
Simon, I don't know why you assume so much about the 'greed based system' you claim is in the US and not in Canada. The US and Canadian economies are entirely controlled by the private banks that fund government and business. If you do not think Canada's dollar crashed and hundreds of billions of dollars vanished from the economy, then you will understand why the Americans will not notice either -- few understand the system, most are dependent upon it. Yeah, go ahead and say that a crashed dollar is good for exports -- its good for selling ANYTHING for pennies on the dollar -- economics is but politics in disguise. Todays's 'crashes' are more like 'crunches' but the result is still a big gulp of purchasing power taken from the populace and put in the hands of the bankers that control the whole system. Canada has an un payable debt, pure and simple, since every dollar in circulation has been borrowed -- that is the only way it is created! So if it is to be paid back plus interest, then every dollar will have to be put back in the Monopoly box -- leaving no money at all -- and still owing more! All to be paid by posterity forever. This is being done around the world at the expense of one nation after another. Ignorance and altruism carry a hefty price -- and if anyone could actually be trusted to provide for us and guide us from the cradle to the grave, it might actually be an attractive possibility -- but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  -- E Archer, NYC      4
So all government is bad or only government that are a little bit to the left of center are bad? I think we are way off topic now. Hey, I live in a little cabin in the woods, don't have a tv, ride my bike in to town every day for supplies, do a little bit of internet programming for an income, grow my own food for fun, I have no use for most of what passes for civiliztion at all personally, but its nice to have a government that isn't only interested in enriching the rich at the expense of everyone else. And it leaves me alone when I desire it.  -- Simon, Victoria, BC, Canada      2
Simon, yes, living in Canada was one of the best times of my life -- not because of the government but because of the people. But taxes were WAY too high. The US police state is expanding and marching steadily to socialism. There are a number of Americans that are trying to do something about it, so don't blame all Americans for what Washington does -- we do not have ANY control of our government -- there is not one person on this list that can change ONE thing -- so all there is left to do is rant. ;-) Cheers  -- E Archer, NYC      4
-- Robert, Somewhere in Europe
Simon, a fence sitter. Minimalist, enjoying his ability to pay the State for Liberty at his choosing. With a bleeding heart for the poor ignorant slave. Where he acknowledges himself better in his knowing, being a humble slave that he. The battle is much Older in purpose and intent, to remove all trace of living language, remaining of Mithra, the Yazata of Covenant and Oath, A Judicial Figure, And All Seeing Protector of TRUTH. This predating the religions of Islam and Catholicism. From the cradle of civilization to the spreading forth across India to the Far reaches towards the East. Here we find the ever expanding mindset of Beliefs, based upon hidden FACTS. Revealing that which is beyond the Ancients knowledge ! A bridge that spans the gaps in understanding, time, place, and event. From the very ancient Avestan language, Apam Napat, Son of Waters, as also the star Saad Al Sund, In the right shoulder of Hupet Trion. There is no failure. Regardless of attempts by Angra Mainyu to extinguish the trances revealing his origin as also others Avestas like Spenta Mainyu and Ahura Mazda.  -- Ronw13, USA      1
Yes, that good ol' Socialist Welfare System along with the blatantly wasteful and abusive Military Industrial Complex and the worthless devaluing Fiat Monetary system have all tremendously and egregiously helped to place the sovereign U.S. into an unfathomable and unsustainable $19 Trillion and climbing National Debt. The U.S. was not constitutionally founded as a haven for socialism. the U.S. was founded as a Limited Government Republic to allow people the freedom to make their own choices (right or wrong) and to free up their Unalienable Rights to pursue their own individual initiatives and ambitions as long as each individual caused no harm to another individual and their property. It saddens me to think of how this country failed to elect a true constitutional patriot like Barry Goldwater and instead elected a vile and scheming Welfare Socialist and War Monger in the likes of Lyndon Johnson. We've been paying the price ever since. All of you Canadians who adore your socialist society can keep it ... but, our representatives have sworn a sacred oath and covenant to our U.S. Constitution ... which is this sovereign nation's ONLY Supreme Rule of Law (Article 6) over and above anyone's whim's, schemes and socialist agenda's.  -- Mary - MI      3
Simon, there are some accuracies in you otherwise overall false assertions. The U.S.A.'s fiscal loses can be directly tied to socialistic implementations, theocratic enactment and other unconstitutional activities. Canada's fiscal socialism (keep spending until you run out of other's money) isn't looking well for keeping the nation united.  -- Mike, Norwalk
Ron, I don't know what the heck you are talking about, but it sounds very interesting...  -- E Archer, NYC      1
Just like the US, Canada started creating currency by issuing bonds to be 'bought' by private banks in 1913.  There were no taxes on labor up until that point.  There is in fact a difference between the Bank of Canada and the Federal Reserve.  In the US, the US Treasury is not permitted to issue bank notes as currency, they instead work-around by creating Treasury Bonds and allow the Fed to 'buy' them with currency they create of of nothing — thus the currency is issued with interest-bearing debt. However, the Bank of Canada is authorized to create all the money the government needs interest-free and debt-free, the only 'tax' being inflation.  Instead, the Canadian government 'borrows' from the private banks that also create the money out of nothing (i.e. monetizing debt), and interest is due.  Canadians are kept in the dark just like Americans, and generations have now passed not knowing how things really worked when both the US and Canada were among the most prosperous nations in the world.  Working for over six months in a year to pay taxes is nothing short of servitude!  This is the same old British colonial system -- even indentured servants got a better return...  -- E Archer, NYC      1

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