"Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God,
than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived."
by:
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809) US Founding father, pamphleteer, author
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 -- gdg, windsor, on      
Honesty and courage, Lincoln squarely facing the issues of his day. Read a piece by Ben Stein yesterday he said Bill Clinton and Robert Rubin were the only leaders who faced natioal economics, taxes and budgets with an honest, reasonalbe adult mentality.
 -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas     
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    One honest man seeking: to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, individual sovereignty, personal responsibility, unalienable Rights, justice, freedom, liberty, etc. to themselves and their posterity, is of more worth to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians wearing badges, black robes, and otherwise de facto coronets of pseudo assumed authority that ever lived.
     -- Mike, Norwalk     
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     -- jim k, austin      
    Though I could do without the God bit
     -- RobertSRQ     
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    Those who have a crown got it because they were ruffians, and like a mafia protection racket, live off the production of honest men. Who is more valuable to society: the shopkeeper or the thief?
     -- Ken, Allyn, WA     
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    By the way, Robert. I am curious why a 'fictitious non-entity' would cause you so much consternation. Do you have the same reaction to Zeus in the Greek classics? You wouldn't be trying to proselytize atheism would you?
     -- Ken, Allyn, WA     
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    Ken, God is not a "fictious non-entity" He is a concept or spirit just like Freedom, and Liberty. Some think Sprits like Liberty, Freedom and God are more real than the physical world. Biological life and even material things will some day cease to exist but some think that concepts will go on for ever.
     -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas     
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    How does a concept go on forever is there is no being to conceive it?
     -- warren, olathe     
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    Works for me. Nice comments, Mike! Waffler, well if you think this quote applies to the honesty of Clinton (LOL) you have very low standards. Robert, I think you will find you and Paine to be like-minded - Paine said: "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church."
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    Waffler, I was just trying to get into the atheistic mindset with the 'fictitious non-entity' phrase; thus the quote. I have known people who have believed in various faiths including everything from Christian to pagan and many others. I think all of them, including atheism, involve some element of faith and therefore they give an emotional response when something challenges their belief The only people I have known who don't really give that kind of response are agnostics who simply acknowledge that they don't know if there is or is not a God. I think you are very close to the mark in the observation that God is the embodiment of liberty and freedom. I would add justice as well.
     -- Ken, Allyn, WA     
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    Books can carry spirit Warren but yeah if everything is destroyed, I guess intelligence and the ensuing spirits will have to start all over again. I intuited your meaning Ken and just wanted to expand upon it. Archer I was just trying to give some real life examples among many that may be possible. Do you have any Sir?
     -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas     
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    I have the up most respect for Paine. He has to be one of the wisest modern men that ever lived. As to his addition of God, well it just shows how important God was to our founders. But the important thing is that they believed that God was a personal choice, to be honored in your place of worship, and your conduct, but never to be impelled upon others, and never to be involved in government. As long as This mindset is always followed, God poses no threat to anyone's mind, body, or soul.
     -- Ken, Milford Pa     
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    Archer I was quoting Ben Stein in reference to Clinton and his Secretary of The Treasury Robert Rubin. What is the point of me writing carefully if you are going to read carelessly?
     -- Waffler, Smith, Arkansas     
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    I don't know, Waffler, what IS your point? (Seems pretty lame.)
     -- E Archer, NYC     
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    I like it, I just don't understand it. I am doing a project on the Common Sense Pamphlet and have to write a quote and describe one the quote means in sentence. But I don't know how.>.>
     -- Shay, Portland     
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